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I just found out we have a concept and a cliche page for the same topic: Talking Animals. Should they be allowed to co-exist or do we need to delete one. Personally, In think "talking animals" is more of a concept than a cliche.

I've asked this question before. It's a concept. I think the cliche page is still up because the mods are not allowed to delete cliche pages.

Ugh. This may sound like a jump but this site needs a major design overhaul.

Yeah, I agree that it's a concept, not a cliche. I'll see what I can do about deleting it.

I did it! I took down a cliche!

BE WARY OF MY POWERS

I'm curious as to why everyone thinks it's a concept. I generally think of it like this:

Cliche = A trope or fictional device which commonly occurs within movies/tv.

e.g. One Man Army, Unlimited Bullets, Manic Pixie Dream Girl

Concept = A real-world thing or idea which somehow relates to the particular movie/tv show.

e.g. Sequel, Film Noir, Monster of the Week, Depression

Since 'talking animals' is not a real-world concept like, say, time travel, but much more of a fictional device, I would say it's a cliche. I think that the term 'cliche' is just misleading in general. It should really be titled 'tropes', but I guess the Whiskey guys wanted to differentiate themselves from tvtropes a little.

Concept or Cliché

This site seem to get the two muddle up a lot

Cliché - an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has been overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect.

Concept - A real-world thing or idea which somehow relates to the particular movie/tv show.

	1. Talking Animals should be Cliché
	2. Twist Ending should be Cliché
	3. Darker Second Installment should be Cliché
	4. Kill Off should be Cliché
	5. Hero Turned Evil should be Cliché
	6. Villian Turned Good should be Cliché
	7. Excessive Profanity should be Cliché
	8. Full Frontal Female Nudity should be Cliché
	9. Full Frontal Male Nudity should be Cliché
	10. Irredeemably Evil Villainess should be Cliché
	11. Gratuitous Female Nudity basically the same thing as Full Frontal Female Nudity
	12. Bleeping Swear Words Make Them Funnier should be Cliché
	13. Movie Takes Place in One Day should be Cliché

A Cliché is just a concept that is overused and seeing as there are virtually no new concepts then technically everything could be both a concept and a cliché at the same time.

The whole cliché category should just be done away with leaving it only labelled as concepts.

Usually our cliches are things that pop up in movies over and over again.

Talking animals can be a basis for an entire movie, in my opinion this pulls it out of cliche territory and makes it a concept. I wouldn't call the talking animals in Homeward Bound for example a cliche. It's the concept for the entire movie and that's why it mostly fits as a concept.

A cliche is usually something that pops up in a movie. Shirtless is a great example. In the Twilight films the one dude is constantly taking off his shirt for little to no reason. It doesn't effect plot or the movie as a whole, but it happens. Thus a cliche. If he had to be shirtless because of some plot twist or to save the day, it would be less of a cliche.

That's how they've been treated on the site anyways.

@CommanderZx2:

@FinalDasa said:

Usually our cliches are things that pop up in movies over and over again.

Talking animals can be a basis for an entire movie, in my opinion this pulls it out of cliche territory and makes it a concept. I wouldn't call the talking animals in Homeward Bound for example a cliche. It's the concept for the entire movie and that's why it mostly fits as a concept.

A cliche is usually something that pops up in a movie. Shirtless is a great example. In the Twilight films the one dude is constantly taking off his shirt for little to no reason. It doesn't effect plot or the movie as a whole, but it happens. Thus a cliche. If he had to be shirtless because of some plot twist or to save the day, it would be less of a cliche.

That's how they've been treated on the site anyways.

That's why I think the term Cliche is flawed on this website, because many things that we refer to as cliches aren't always bad things; they are often the very fabric of what makes movies enjoyable. Thus, tropes. But of course we can't do anything about the naming at this point. That aside, I still think talking animals fits better as a cliche than a concept. Just because it is used throughout a movie doesn't make it less of a cliche; it is still a fictional device which is used very often in movies.

I see where you're coming from; the concept and cliche thing has always been a little confusing to me, and the lines often seem to blur between the two. At a certain point it just becomes semantics.

@ashogo: It's a weird line for sure but I know where it is, isn't that what matters? :P

@FinalDasa said:

@ashogo: It's a weird line for sure but I know where it is, isn't that what matters? :P

So you disagree with my categorization?

@ashogo: No I don't. But all we can do is define it for the site and move forward. I know I don't want to go through every cliche and every concept and redefine each one. I think currently it isn't a huge problem on the site or the wiki. It is confusing and I wish I could spend a day or two fixing it all but it's more work than that.

If you have a solution I'd love to hear it :D But I just don't know how to solve it all except have a definition for the site and apply it whenever someone asks.

@FinalDasa: Would it be possible to just merge concept and cliches into one category (called concepts and cliches)?

@googler12: I don't have that much power (I wish I did!). That would require a lot of engineering and a rework of the wiki. Maybe when the site gets updated we can get a list of wants and that can be one of them, but for now we have to live with what we have.

I wonder sometimes if we should continue using the Whiskey Media format, seeing we're now separated from those who made it possible and kept in maintained. We've lost a lot of users following the break-up and I don't think we're attracting many more due to the quality drop, meaning no ones interested in going through our database. I had one smartass comment on my dA that Screened isn't TV Tropes which, admittingly, dwarf us when it comes to keeping track of concepts and cliches and all that jazz.
 
This has been a recurring thought of mine. Have AV and Tested been fairing any better?

@Paulrus: I don't know about Tested, but AV has been doing better than its Whiskey Media days. I think it has to do with the fact that they have been ignored in the past and have been an almost community run site. It also helps that Tom and Sam have been really active as staff members, making videos and writing tons of articles. Their wiki has also improved by bounds. When a new season of anime comes out, teams of wiki editors jump on it. By the end of the season, all the news shows are filled.

edit: Here is an example of a show that was filled out this season: Tari Tari

@Acura_Max: So they have a very dedicated community of editors? Cool, cool, but is the site known and reputable? My theory about WM sites was that we were news sites that happened to have a database/wiki. GB has worked out because they have an expanding and detailed wiki and professional news. (It also helped that Jeff was involved, and it was all founded on the heels of the Kane and Lynch convtroversy.) I don't know about our sister sites, but we don't have that balance anymore... or we're just grossly behind. (We were the youngest afterall, and we appeared to have got hosed in the deal.)
 
 I've heard many times that we have a strong community, but I don't buy that nowadays. All the remains are the dedicated regulars hanging around a deserted resort town that had seen better days. And we don't appear to be that dedicated. The example you gave is promising of the things we can achieve, but I don't see it very often. Then again, I was gone for awhile and I've been an egotistical little shit in the past when it came to providing content here. Point is, I personally haven't seen much proof that we're as dedicated to user-made content as our sister sites.
 
How can we attract more people here, or coax back those who left in the fallout? Because without people, we have no site. We'll just be an obscure little hole in the wall.

@Acura_Max: @Paulrus: BB owns WM, the WM brand still exists. Or at least the remnants do over with Tested. The problem with Screened compared to AV or CV is that we are the youngest. CV and AV had years to establish themselves whereas Screened had less than 2.

I think we are getting new users and I'm surprised about how some just dive right into the wiki. It's not as often as before but the wiki queue still fills up a few times a month with a new user finding their niche within the wiki. I'd say as long as we keep at it and keep this place ours, setting our own tone and culture on the site, then even if it's slow or fast the growing new users will understand what this site is.

@Paulrus: I would say the site is known and reputable or at least the advertisers believe so.

There was also one user review that was highlighted on an anime's facebook.: link