Analyzing Nolan's Latest Masterpiece: "The Dark Knight Rises".

Topic started by MasterPr0phet on July 22, 2012. Last post by Tylea002 10 months ago.
Post by MasterPr0phet (87 posts) See mini bio

Before you read any further, I trust that if you haven't seen the movie, go do so immediately and read no further in anything I write here. I don't want to spoil the movie for anyone, but being a life-long Batman fan, and for as much love as I give this movie and the trilogy as a whole, I felt I needed to sit down and bring up several things about the movie, good and bad, that need to be addressed.

Over the last several days I've read a lot of fan reactions to the movie, and the response has, for the most part, been overwhelmingly positive. But there have been a few people that can't grasp some of things that occur in this movie, and for that I felt someone has to take charge and write something, and thus, that's what I'm doing.

The Dark Knight Rises borrows heavily from four major storylines in the Batman mythos: The Dark Knight Returns, Knightfall, Batman Vs. Bane, and No Man's Land. While I use the term "borrows", that's what they do. They aren't exactly replicating any part of these storylines, rather, using them as jumping off points into Nolan's own vision for Batman. And it works wonderfully, but there were a few things about the movie that I gotta throw out there as, well, small gripes I guess.

1. Michael Caine 's Alfred is heavily underused in this film. Some of this franchise most impact-full and fulfilling moments are delivered through Alfred, and while they are once again in this film, the whole plot idea of shipping him away felt rather cheap. I don't want to say that I felt cheated at all, I mean he was in the film, but he then just disappears, only to reappear at the end of the film. Regardless of that, he still delivers some of the most important dialogue in the movie.

2. Bane's second speech. While I love Tom Hardy to death here and I want nothing more then to shake the hand of the man that brought a true version of Bane to life in this film, his second speech came off to me as a little "Batman Forever" like. The noticeably cringe-worthy line is when he says "The Batman" when he is reading Gordon's lost speech. It just comes off very cartoonish and corny, and for a brief second took me out of the realism of the movie. Not to say anything else bad about his performance because, man, his dialogue during the back-breaking scene is top notch.

3.Daggett. Many people have made the mistake of connecting this character to the infamous Clayface from the comics, however, in the Batman mythos, the character of Daggett is nothing more than a corrupt business man. So that part of the movie makes more sense. You're welcome to go look at one of the many Clayfaces that there have been: Basil Karlo, Matt Hagen, Preston Payne, Sondra Fuller, Cassius Payne, Dr. Peter Malley, Todd Russell, and Johnny Williams. Notice not one of them is named Daggett? Get your facts straight, people.

4. The ending: and I will warn again before talking about it, *MAJOR SPOILERS HERE PEOPLE*, I can't say that I have the answer to the future of this franchise, but here's how I read into what the ending means for the future, and what I would like to see as a Batman fan. The character of "Robin John Blake" as I believe his full name would be pronounced, is a mixture of Dick Grayson and Tim Drake (John Blake, Tim Drake, get it?). We get an almost identical story to Drake's story, as someone who witnessed his father die thanks to a gambling debt, and Drake was the only person at a time who straight up figured out who Batman/Bruce Wayne was, much like the character in this movie. However, rather then having him become Robin, or even, Nightwing, I interrupt the end of this film as simply, he will continue the legacy Bruce Wayne created as being the new Batman. I only amplify why I believe this is the case because at the end of the film the Bat-signal is shown as rebuilt, and obviously he's exploring the cave, so why wouldn't he continue the legacy? If they were gonna make him Robin or Nightwing, obviously the signal would have been different. With that being said, I would like to see a Batman Beyond like storyline, with, if possible, Christian Bale reprising his role as Bruce Wayne and training Blake into becoming the new Batman. I dunno if it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did, and it makes much more sense to continue an established franchise that people love, rather then tear down what they love and rebuild something that will be merely ok (because let's be honest, no one is going to be ready for a new Bruce Wayne Batman for at least a decade now). I can even see someone like Nolan coming back as a producer. Anyways that's all speculation, but that's the way I interpreted the ending, until it is proven otherwise.

With all that said, what did everyone else think of Nolan's final Batman film? Pretty damn amazing, right?

Post by Dylabaloo (821 posts) See mini bio

@MasterPr0phet: I'm also in the Batman Beyond camp, I was hoping for this even before the movie came out when I saw Jiggle. And thankfully the possibility has come to fruition. I think Beyond would be perfect, New Gotham, New Villains, New Batman. Jiggles slender form also lends perfectly to Batman Beyond and I really like him as an actor and particularly his John Blake in TDKR. Only downside is Bale said he won't be doing another Batman film but maybe they could get Caine to come back as his mentor. If they could get Trent Reznor to do the soundtrack that would be so great, a mixture of the classical Hans Zimmer with this new electro music would be so fitting for the introduction of a new Gotham/Trilogy.

Post by TheFaithfullyDeparted (1,921 posts) See mini bio

@MasterPr0phet: Sorry to burst you're bubble but Bale said he wouldn't be in a movie with Robin and he also said Rises was going to be his last Batman movie...

Besides that I much like Bane but a couple of things annoyed me. One of which was his voice, while I could clearly understand him the voice didn't match the character in my mind. And two a pet peeve of mine is when you have some super character who just takes punches like Bane does the first time he fights Batman, I realize you're stronger than Batman but are you honestly going to let someone just wail on you? That just annoys me.

Caine had the best scene in the movie when he speaks at Bruce's funeral but the movie goes on to ruin that perfect moment which really ticked me off.

Besides that I absolutely loved the film and will probably see it again while its in theaters

Post by MasterPr0phet (87 posts) See mini bio

@TheFaithfullyDeparted: Bale was opposed to the idea until recently, regardless, he wouldn't return as Batman, he'd return as a mentor, and for that, I can see happening.

Post by RockinKemosabe (884 posts) See mini bio

I was secretly hoping that JGL was going to say his real name was Terry McGinnis.

Post by AmorVincitOmnia (72 posts) See mini bio
I was one of those (possibly a minority) who had trouble understanding Bane through that mask. It took me out of the moment and I hate feeling that I missed important dialogue.
Post by Genkkaku (188 posts) See mini bio

I really hope they don't continue it, I like the Idea of JGL carrying on the Batman legacy, re-enforcing the earlier talks between him and Wayne were he is telling him the mask isn't to protect him its to create something recognisable and unstopable, and thats good enough for me..

I've mentioned it in the other post but the humanizing/ de-masking of Bane and the way Catwomen beats him is my contention point of this film

Still loved it though, not as solid as DK, but a very fitting end

@TheFaithfullyDeparted said:

Caine had the best scene in the movie when he speaks at Bruce's funeral but the movie goes on to ruin that perfect moment which really ticked me off.

I have the same feeling about this, I know why they did and that ending was obvious from the moment Alfred told the story but as mentioned by my friend it would have been better if it just showed Alfred and maybe he see's something but you never get so see if he does or doesn't

Post by MasterPr0phet (87 posts) See mini bio

@Genkkaku said:

I have the same feeling about this, I know why they did and that ending was obvious from the moment Alfred told the story but as mentioned by my friend it would have been better if it just showed Alfred and maybe he see's something but you never get so see if he does or doesn't

If Nolan did that, it would be Inception all over again.

Post by Tylea002 (462 posts) See mini bio

@MasterPr0phet said:

@Genkkaku said:

I have the same feeling about this, I know why they did and that ending was obvious from the moment Alfred told the story but as mentioned by my friend it would have been better if it just showed Alfred and maybe he see's something but you never get so see if he does or doesn't

If Nolan did that, it would be Inception all over again.

Or how about not showing that. How about Alfred meeting Blake in the Batcave, establishing both have moved on with their lives without resolving Alfred's beautifully done tragedy, thus ruining it's poignancy.

Post by Genkkaku (188 posts) See mini bio

@Tylea002 said:

@MasterPr0phet said:

@Genkkaku said:

I have the same feeling about this, I know why they did and that ending was obvious from the moment Alfred told the story but as mentioned by my friend it would have been better if it just showed Alfred and maybe he see's something but you never get so see if he does or doesn't

If Nolan did that, it would be Inception all over again.

Or how about not showing that. How about Alfred meeting Blake in the Batcave, establishing both have moved on with their lives without resolving Alfred's beautifully done tragedy, thus ruining it's poignancy.

But Inception did allow you to come up with your own conclusion so depending on who you are you could decide if he lived or die.. But I can see why from that point he would do..

Alfred meeting Blake sounds more neat than I think it would be, as he left Wayne because he couldn't watch him destroy himself as the Batman anymore and for him to help Blake transition into Batman would go against that and where his character has ended up.. Well that's what I think anyways

Post by MasterPr0phet (87 posts) See mini bio

I personally loved the ending simply because when do you ever see a Superhero finish his job, and get to be happy in the end? And of all the superheroes, Batman is the most conflicted, so to see him end up happy, that was a touching and nice moment. I'm also not opposed to seeing JGL continue as Batman if they were to do another film in this universe. I mean, get Nolan on board to at least produce, maybe cameos from some of the previous cast members (even Bale, despite him not putting the cape and cowl on again), I'm down with that. Some of the most recent entertaining comic stories in the Batman universe have been with Dick Grayson as Batman, and I never thought I'd like it that way, but I really do. Obviously, Bruce Wayne will always be Batman, but I'm not opposed to the idea of JGL as Batman. We will see what happens in the future here, but I would much rather see WB do that then to just instantly reboot the franchise.

Post by ashogo (754 posts) See mini bio

@AmorVincitOmnia said:

I was one of those (possibly a minority) who had trouble understanding Bane through that mask. It took me out of the moment and I hate feeling that I missed important dialogue.

I was the same way. I already kind of have a hard time hearing dialogue in movies, so Bane's voice was just an extra impediment to my understanding of the speech. And was it just me or did it feel like in some scenes the music was incredibly overpowering of the voices?

Post by Tylea002 (462 posts) See mini bio
@ashogo

@AmorVincitOmnia said:

I was one of those (possibly a minority) who had trouble understanding Bane through that mask. It took me out of the moment and I hate feeling that I missed important dialogue.

I was the same way. I already kind of have a hard time hearing dialogue in movies, so Bane's voice was just an extra impediment to my understanding of the speech. And was it just me or did it feel like in some scenes the music was incredibly overpowering of the voices?

Yep, the music mix was INSANE. Seeing as one of the most powerful scenes in the film was the only one that was COMPLETELY SILENT save for dialogue, the overbearing music was odd.
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