The Weinstein Co. Just Did Something Really Despicable

Topic started by VioletEyedDragon on April 7, 2012. Last post by VioletEyedDragon 1 year, 1 month ago.
Post by VioletEyedDragon (1,819 posts) See mini bio
Harvey Weinstein
Harvey Weinstein

The controversial R-rating of Bully has provoked a lot of discussion on whether (and if so how) to reform the movie rating system. I think the biggest issue here is not what Bully is rated or whether the rating system should be changed but how the Weinstein Company has done some morally despicable acts to achieve it—and getting away with it.

For those unfamiliar with the background of the story, Bully is a documentary on youth bullying. It shows the lives of several children who live in misery because of unfair and malicious treatment by their peers. The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) rated it “R” because it has six f-words. The movies distributor—the Weinstein Company--appealed, lost, and then sued (and lost again), arguing for a PG-13 rating instead. It eventually released two versions of the film—one unrated and one with three of six f-bombs bleeped out. This feud with the MPAA (which is composed of members from six major film distributors but not the Weinstein Company) has been longstanding , dating back to the days when the company’s big wigs—Harvey and Ben Weinstein—worked for Miramax. So it isn’t something just centering around this one PSA documentary and its message. That isn’t in and of itself a bad thing. However the Weinstein Co. is definitely spinning it thus.

That isn’t the biggest problem here. That is the backstory. The big issue is that to help raise public awareness against bullying (that happens to be resting solely on the number of people who see a very noble picture that just happens to have the potential to make millions upon millions of dollars for the Weinstein Co.), Harvey Weinstein stated his biggest concern was that he wanted it to be played in schools. Theoretically, an R-rating would stop that. Obviously, that is total bologna—my school’s 5th grade class watched Glory in order to learn about the Civil War.

Weinstein—yes, while it is a company decision, it is being spear-headed by Harvey Weinstein, so I have no problem referring specifically to him—approached school executives and teachers and explained how terribly upset he was that children could no longer see this movie that had the potential to reveal the horrible epidemic of bullying (yes, the word was epidemic) because it had six f-words. At one point someone might have let slip that schools play movies with the f-word in it all the f-wording time, because Weinstein—in his typical altruism as a crusader for the greater good—offered to show the movie for free to the students. Some schools said no, but several said yes.

Right now there is a petition signed by 20,000 school children with the support of hundreds of teachers begging the MPAA to reverse its decision because bullying needs to be stopped. This sound noble and all, but the simple fact is the Weinstein Company was just able to get several middle schools to go to a special publicity showing of an R-rated film. Not a normal showing—a special, pre-release screening. Movie screenings have one purpose—to generate publicity for the movie. And sure enough, with teachers bringing the kids out of class and explaining that the purpose of this was to stop bullying—and then emotionally overloading the elementary and middle school children with horrible images of bullying—these kids suddenly need to encourage everyone to see the movie no matter what.

Movies can change people. That is definitely true. But lots and lots of speakers and essays and movies and youtube videos have been made to help stop bullying. I am sure many of them have had at least some degree of success. This one movie is not the one hope to stop bullying. And kids could probably convince their parents to get the movie if they really want it. Yet a sad, bullied kid is not going to see that. And neither is a perfectly happy kid who’s friends all believe that the movie will solve everything. If they are brought to a movie with all their friends and implored to do whatever it takes to stop bullying they will of course feel it is necessary to encourage everyone to see the film and order the dismantling of the entire rating system to do it.

I am sure the teachers and administrators who brought these kids to the movie (and plan to show it to future classes on DVD) are genuinely trying to fight bullying. And the kids who signed that petition genuinely want to as well. But this isn’t just some effort to help the community—it is a product being sold by a multi-million for-profit company. It shouldn’t be this easy to get this product distributed to every child in a district.

When you go to Wal-Mart, they offer you samples of the food. Why? Because they know you will buy more of it, and tell your friends to buy more of it. Yet Wal-Mart will have a harder time coming into a school and giving that food to kids and encouraging them to tell their friends to buy some too.

Bully was likely made with the goal of helping fight bullying. It might have the capacity to do so. But it is also a product being sold. Just because it is linked to a real cause does not mean it should be advertised to young children in public schools.

This isn’t a movie picked out by teachers who think it will be helpful. It was the Weinstein Company that approached the school. By giving permission, schools are letting a business advertise directly to their students—and worse, involving the students with the Weinstein’s Company crusade to take down the MPAA. And the business didn’t even have to pay.

Post by gangly (1,273 posts) See mini bio

From certain things he's done in the past, Weinstein definitely seems like a sleazy guy. This, however is clearly not one of those cases. You repeatedly say that because kids are going to these screenings, they'll tell other people to go see the movie, and that's somehow evil?!? If a kid likes it, they'll recommend it. If not, they won't. Sure, the point for Weinstein is to garner word of mouth, but that doesn't work unless the movie's good and effective.

You also have to consider the uniqeness of this situation. Bullying is a hugely serious problem that is escallating and leading to suicides in some cases. For many of those kids, YouTube videos and Public Speakers may seem like bullshit, and if this film can help any of them, then aggressively promoting a Doc that otherwise would hardly have been seen by anyone is a wonderful thing.

Bully was likely made with the goal of helping fight bullying. It might have the capacity to do so. But it is also a product being sold. Just because it is linked to a real cause does not mean it should be advertised to young children in public schools.

This makes absolutely zero sense to me. It's not being "advertised" to young children! Kids went to a screening, that's it.

I hope you got something out of watching Glory in school. It's a very powerful film that shows some of the real horrors, physically and emotionally, of the Civil War. If you had seen it in a special screening though, would that have made it somehow despicable? Absolutely not.

Post by not_a_bumblebee (869 posts) See mini bio
 Harvey Weinstein is one of the biggest pieces of shit in Hollywood.  That is not an opinion, that is a fact.  However I agree with him completely on this issue.  MPAA sucks and if you disagree watch This Film is Not Yet Rated.   I understand your point about The Weinstein Company wanting to make money but everybody wants to make money.  Textbooks aren't free and will drop controversial subjects from their pages if it equals more sales, which is more disturbing.  
 
The truth is more young people will watch the film if it is rated PG-13 and more classes will show it if they aren't required to get students to sign permission slips.  I remember having to get my mom to sign one to see Schindler's List in 8th Grade.  I also remember several kids being forced to go to the cafeteria for study hall because their parents refused to sign. 
Post by Sandor (613 posts) See mini bio

No, fuck ratings boards for forcing a company to jump through hoops like this to make filming such an important documentary a financially viable undertaking.

Post by rem25 (628 posts) See mini bio

@Sandor: What hoops did they make the Weinstein company jump through?

I'm sorry, but if your film contains strong language, violence, or nudity, it should get the rating it deserves. I don't give a shit how culturally important it is, you have to play by the rules like everyone else. If you really cared about the subject matter, edit your film so it can be viewed by a wider audience to begin with and then there would be no controversy; it's as simple as that. Weinstein does seem like a fucking crybaby over this. It's pretty ironic as he didn't get his way, so he takes to the public and tries to bully the MPAA into changing the rating of the film. Shame on him for this. It doesn't matter if kids hear the fucks or not in school, home or with friends, that doesn't mean they should be able to watch a film with it. If you use that argument, then why not allow kids to see violent movies since they're playing Halo, Call of Duty, etc. You start allowing exceptions for one film and you will start to go down a slipper slope where every director or studio head will not bitch and moan for unfair ratings and then eventually you will delve into chaos with this shit. Seriously, people, is right here.

Christ, I wish people would stop bringing up that goddamn documentary (This Film is Not Yet Rated). This isn't directed at you personally not_a_bumblebee, but people need to realize what this film is. It's a half decent documentary that never really goes anywhere and it fails to even offer some type of suggestion of what should be done to either replace the MPAA or find a way to better rate movies. The first half offers interesting perspectives and reasons for why films got rated one way but it's mostly just directors and actors complaining. I agree that not everything the MPAA does makes sense, but then again, what ratings board or committee makes correct stances 100% of the time? Let's face it, out of the hundreds of films that come out each year, how many actually have an issue with the rating they received from the MPAA? I would say it's a very small number, if any. Weinstein should have just sucked it up, edited the film to make it PG-13 friendly or leave it in it's original format and hope that kids would be allowed to see it.

At the end of the day, this film will not stop bullying. It might shed a light on it for awhile but then it will fade from memory and people will probably resort to PSAs and YouTube clips again.

Post by DeathByDysentery (10 posts) See mini bio

I'm split on this one. It's possible for this whole controversy over the film, Bully, to be a Weinstein conspiracy, but it's also very likely that the MPAA were just being the assholes that they are. And even if this is a Weinstein conspiracy, I don't really care. I care about this movie being good. This film should have a large impact on the bullying problem in our country. The videos that they play at schools like mine, are ass. They're extremely watered down, fake, and poor, which results in no one giving a shit. But if you have a good, real film, certain students and especially parents may wake up and realize that they can be dicks.

Post by 2 (3 posts) See mini bio

@VioletEyedDragon said:

When you go to Wal-Mart, they offer you samples of the food.

What kind of Wal-Mart are you going to? They never have samples at my local one.

Anyways, I completely agree with the main point here. If Weinstein really wanted it to be shown in schools, just edit it so it could be shown in schools. Bullying the MPAA over the rating of your anti-bullying documentary is totally hypocritical.

Post by sickVisionz (116 posts) See mini bio

I agree with MPAA on this one. Make an R movie, get an R rating. This wasn't a case of the MPAA coming up some cherry picked and cryptic examples. This was a pure number count situation that everyone involved with the production was completely aware of from the get go and knew how to avoid, but chose not to in hopes of bullying their way through the system.

The movie will be just as powerful or important with some of the fucks bleeped out and it will have the PG-13 rating they craved. If the real point is to get the movie out at as many people as possible, I'm not sure why he became such a blow hard over keeping the content R rather than do something as trivial as removing some fucks. It's not an "artistic integrity" argument, right? It's supposed to be about getting kids to see this and not about how strong language shouldn't be a factor in a film's rating, right?

Post by Red (508 posts) See mini bio

Yeah, I agree with the MPAA on this one, too. If you make a movie that fits the standards of an R-rated movie, it gets rated R. There should be more differentiation between something like Bully and Drive Angry, sure, but that's more up to parents and movie theaters allowing kids to go see it than the MPAA. There are plenty of sites out there with a rundown of content in films so parents are able to tell the difference between the Bullies and the Drive Angries.

I guess my real problem with this whole thing is how damn pretentious the Weinstein company is being. They're acting like Bully is some society-changing movie that would've stopped bullying if it was rated PG-13. With this, I have many problems:

  • Kids normally don't go to movie theaters to watch documentaries, especially about a depressing subject like bullying. Maybe if it was about babies or tigers, but not about bullying.
  • The kids that would actually go see the movie are not the ones who really need to hear about how bad bullying is.
  • The kids that would actually go see the movie would probably have been raised by parents that would let them go see such a movie.

As for the school screening crap, while I'm not an expert on the subject, I'm pretty sure a school can show students whatever they want, so long as they allow the kid to step out of he/she is offended. Maybe a permission slip would be needed, but that would just get kids talking about the issue with their kids, which is also a good thing. All I know is that I've seen Rope, Rain Man, Glory, and a documentary about the making of The Matrix in school, and nothing bad came out of it.

Post by rem25 (628 posts) See mini bio

@Red said:

All I know is that I've seen Rope, Rain Man, Glory, and a documentary about the making of The Matrix in school, and nothing bad came out of it.

Yeah, I saw Run Lola Run and Apocalypse Now in high school. I think I needed my parents to sign a slip but I did just fine.

Post by VioletEyedDragon (1,819 posts) See mini bio

@gangly said:

From certain things he's done in the past, Weinstein definitely seems like a sleazy guy. This, however is clearly not one of those cases. You repeatedly say that because kids are going to these screenings, they'll tell other people to go see the movie, and that's somehow evil?!? If a kid likes it, they'll recommend it. If not, they won't. Sure, the point for Weinstein is to garner word of mouth, but that doesn't work unless the movie's good and effective.

You also have to consider the uniqeness of this situation. Bullying is a hugely serious problem that is escallating and leading to suicides in some cases. For many of those kids, YouTube videos and Public Speakers may seem like bullshit, and if this film can help any of them, then aggressively promoting a Doc that otherwise would hardly have been seen by anyone is a wonderful thing.

Bully was likely made with the goal of helping fight bullying. It might have the capacity to do so. But it is also a product being sold. Just because it is linked to a real cause does not mean it should be advertised to young children in public schools.

This makes absolutely zero sense to me. It's not being "advertised" to young children! Kids went to a screening, that's it.

I hope you got something out of watching Glory in school. It's a very powerful film that shows some of the real horrors, physically and emotionally, of the Civil War. If you had seen it in a special screening though, would that have made it somehow despicable? Absolutely not.

Kids were taken to a screening by their teachers. That is completely different from teachers merely showing a DVD or a kid seeing it with their parents.

@2 said:

@VioletEyedDragon said:

When you go to Wal-Mart, they offer you samples of the food.

What kind of Wal-Mart are you going to? They never have samples at my local one.

Anyways, I completely agree with the main point here. If Weinstein really wanted it to be shown in schools, just edit it so it could be shown in schools. Bullying the MPAA over the rating of your anti-bullying documentary is totally hypocritical.

thanks :)

My Wal-Mart always has free food. :)

Post by gangly (1,273 posts) See mini bio

@VioletEyedDragon said:

Kids were taken to a screening by their teachers. That is completely different from teachers merely showing a DVD or a kid seeing it with their parents.

Still don't see how, aside from time wasted on a bus, that it's any different from just playing the DVD.

Post by VioletEyedDragon (1,819 posts) See mini bio

@gangly said:

@VioletEyedDragon said:

Kids were taken to a screening by their teachers. That is completely different from teachers merely showing a DVD or a kid seeing it with their parents.

Still don't see how, aside from time wasted on a bus, that it's any different from just playing the DVD.

because it wasn't the teachers who saw the movie and decided it would be great for their class. It was a movie studio convincing schools to have their kids be part of the marketing campaign.

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