Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Forum

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Amongst Indiana Jones fans, Kingdom of The Crystal Skull is frequently called the worst in the series, I as a big Indy fan don't agree with that.
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is set 19 years after The Last Crusade and picks up in 1957 where Indy is now searching for his friend and former colleague Harold Oxley who disappeared while find the legendary Crystal Skulls. He meets his son, Mutt and is reunited with Marion Ravenwood, his former flame.

The big criticism is that the film is too out there to be an Indiana Jones film, that is totally bogus. The first three films featured more far fetched ideas than anything presented in KOTCS, for instance in Raiders Nazi's head are melted by ghosts coming out of the Ark of the Covenant, Temple of Doom features even more far fetched ideas like Mola Ram pulling a man's heart out, a giant fire pit, and other things. Last Crusade features a fight on top of a tank, a knight over one thousand years old who presumably hadn;t had a bite to eat in over a thousand years.

The concept of the inter-dimensional beings is the thing most fans say is too far fetched and ruins everything, the movie is set in the 1950's so not having something like that would be impossible and like the other three films this is supposed to be a homage to b-films.

Harrison Ford is certainly still able to play the character as he did all his own stunts for the film and looked incredibly fit for his age. The return of Karen Allen was another good thing about the film as we hadn't seen her character since Raiders. I actually really like Shia LaBeouf as Mutt Williams, he's not a Marlon Brando knock off and I think he can act despite what people say. I want to see more of his character in the next film but I'm still not convinced he's ready for the fedora just yet.

I agree that KoTC gets a bad rap. It's certainly got problems (an overabundance of CGI, the fridge, some sloppiness near the end) but overall I enjoyed it quite a bit. A lot of people razz on the fact that the movie had aliens, and that Indiana Jones had always been more focused on religions, but I believe even in the film he says something to the extent of "they were gods, just not yours", so it seems a bit silly to rail on it because of that, personally. The action scenes are fun despite the tons of CGI, and Harrison Ford and Karen Allen are fitting as ever. I didn't have any problems with LaBeouf. He fit the sidekick role well enough and I thought his whole biker-attitude was pretty amusing.

I will never get the problems people have with the hiding in the fridge and the implementation of the aliens at the end. Indiana Jones has always traded on urban legends and the larger than life, which is exactly what the hiding in the lead lined fridge pertains to and the aliens are no more bizarre than the ghosts of thousand year old Jews. The rest of the film was solid though, and while nothing special, was at least better than Temple of Doom.

Crystal Skull is OK. I don't mind the CGI, I actually thought the part where he escaped the nuclear blast was enjoyable, and making it the cold war was a great touch.

I liked it and I thought it was very good, a bit forgettable but still good. I honestly didn't think anything in the film didn't fit with the rest of Indiana Jones. Aliens, Communists (given the setting) and escaping a nuclear blast with a fridge was just the same as wraith of God, Nazi and surviving a fall from a plane with a rubber dingy or a bloody voodoo doll. 

I liked the fridge. I thought it was amusingly ridiculous. The swinging monkeys, not so much. It does place bottom of my Indy list but I agree that it is perceived as worse than it is because it's an Indy movie. I didn't really care much for the character of Mac. He had no emotional impact and they could have found other ways to direct the story in the same way he does. Bit too much heavy CGI use too.

@Romination said:

 Similarly, in the cold war, weird-ass impossible technology was the huge thing, but despite having such an open premise, all they did was aliens and it felt lazy to me. Especially since the movie spent a fuckton of time being like WHAT IS THE CRYSTAL SKULL REALLY and yeah, I don't think anyone was surprised. 

This. The whole time  I was watching it I kept saying to myself there is no way they are going to say aliens is there. I remember being in the theater and hearing audible "ughs" and i felt much the same. I do agree the film isn't terrible, i just feel like it wasn't on the same level as the earlier films. 
Maybe they should have branded it the Uncharted movie. Let's just hope things work out for that franchise.

Terrible movie. 
 
Lucas should have stuck with Darabont's script. It was glorious.

I'll admit that I didn't love the film, and I wouldn't list it among my favourites... but it's still a good fun film.  It continues the fun 'pulp novel' style story-telling of the first three.  I still enjoy watching it.
 
It's a much better film than any of the Star Wars prequels.

I understand your point but I can't disagree more. There is a reason that "nuking the fridge" is a term now.

@ScanCase said:

I understand your point but I can't disagree more. There is a reason that "nuking the fridge" is a term now.

But why is that so bad in a franchise where someone has their beating heart ripped from their chest, faces get melted off and thousand year old men tell you you've chosen poorly?

What about that shitty jungle Jeep chase?  I can buy that in a world where Nazis faces can melt or dudes can rip out peoples hearts without tearing open their chest that Indy can survive an atomic blast in a fridge.  What I don't buy is two Jeeps exchanging automatic gun fire from about 5 feet away and not hitting anything or horrible CGI monkeys or the aliens way of thanking someone for returning their skull is to straight up kill them.   What was up with that ?  They just kill Cate Blancette then fly away.  The Ark killed the Nazis because they stared upon the word of God.  I think I understood the purpose of the magic glowing potatoes from Temple.  I also can believe that  picking the wrong grail would fuck your shit up in Last Crusade. What I don't get is why Cate Blanchette was punished for placing a skull upon the body of an alien.  It made no fucking sense!!!
 
I am going to be honest I dug Indy 4 up until he goes to South America.  The movie just goes off the deep end and just never recovers.  I thought the motorcycle chase was one of the better action scenes in an Indy movie. 
 
I am sorry but in retrospect I hate Indy 4 more now then when I first saw it.

@not_a_bumblebee: Didn't they ask her what she wanted or something? And she was like "I want to know everything" and then she exploded? 
 
It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but it seems sort of similar to "He chose poorly", in that someone's lust for greatness brought them swift, horrific death.

@TheFreeMan:  Then her head should of exploded ala Scanners.  That would of made more sense.  That is another thing about Indy 4 other then the ants there was a lack of gruesome or humorous deaths.

@HandsomeDead said:

@ScanCase said:

I understand your point but I can't disagree more. There is a reason that "nuking the fridge" is a term now.

But why is that so bad in a franchise where someone has their beating heart ripped from their chest, faces get melted off and thousand year old men tell you you've chosen poorly?

Because within the logic of the films there are 'supernatural' reasons for those events. What is supernatural about the totally normal fridge in that film? It stretches what the audience will accept to breaking point and then beyond.

@not_a_bumblebee: Well, her head lit on fire first (and flames were shooting out of her eyes), followed by the rest of her body. If her head exploded I think people would have razzed on the movie for playing on Raiders nostalgia.
 
Well, in every Indy movie it's mostly people getting punched out, shot, or knocked off of cliffs/crashing in vehicles, with the big bad henchman getting a gruesome death and the overall antagonist getting killed supernaturally. In Raiders, the big bald Nazi got killed by the propeller, in Temple of Doom the big Thuggee got killed by the rock crusher, in Last Crusade the dude fell off a cliff in a tank and got crushed by it. In Crystal Skull, the big Russian guy got eaten by ants. 
 
Though you're right about the lack of humourous deaths. I can't remember any part where a dude died in a funny way, like the super-powered pistol shot in Last Crusade or the swordsman dude in Raiders. I don't think it makes much of a difference though, considering the whole thing was pretty lighthearted anyways and they tossed in a jokes in almost every action scene.

@Leakster @HandsomeDead actually I take it a step further. Let's take Raiders as our primary example. Raiders had a brilliant rising action. Through the run time Indy kept running into more and more supernatural situations so that at the end we get this brilliant payoff. Where as Skull started off straining its credibility with audiences very early on. This would have been bad if Skull was about something supernatural instead its sci-fi, something we have never seen Indy deal with. The series had always been about a modern, cynical man dealing with the powers of the past. However in Skull takes that formula of a modern man dealing with the past that is actually the future. It's to much for audiences to buy in their pulp hero. Indy has always dealt with mysticism dealing with aliens doesn't fit with the established films. They broke the rules with Skull which is why everyone has turned on the fourth film so violently.

I agree that the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls is underrated, sure it's not the best in the series, and it's a little odd to call itself a Indiana Jones movie (not really). But I thought it was entertaining enough.

@Leakster said:

@HandsomeDead said:

@ScanCase said:

I understand your point but I can't disagree more. There is a reason that "nuking the fridge" is a term now.

But why is that so bad in a franchise where someone has their beating heart ripped from their chest, faces get melted off and thousand year old men tell you you've chosen poorly?

Because within the logic of the films there are 'supernatural' reasons for those events. What is supernatural about the totally normal fridge in that film? It stretches what the audience will accept to breaking point and then beyond.

Because in the 1950s, fridges were lined with lead so when faced with vast radiation, it makes sense to hide in one when you apply the same logic patterns to it like you apply to the other films. 
 
@ScanCase said:

@Leakster @HandsomeDead actually I take it a step further. Let's take Raiders as our primary example. Raiders had a brilliant rising action. Through the run time Indy kept running into more and more supernatural situations so that at the end we get this brilliant payoff. Where as Skull started off straining its credibility with audiences very early on. This would have been bad if Skull was about something supernatural instead its sci-fi, something we have never seen Indy deal with. The series had always been about a modern, cynical man dealing with the powers of the past. However in Skull takes that formula of a modern man dealing with the past that is actually the future. It's to much for audiences to buy in their pulp hero. Indy has always dealt with mysticism dealing with aliens doesn't fit with the established films. They broke the rules with Skull which is why everyone has turned on the fourth film so violently.

It may be aliens, but it's hardly science fiction. The stories of the aliens supposedly being a crucial part of Mayan civilization are as old as the stories of the Holy Grail and Ark of the Covenant and besides for the ending when they leave on the ship, there's nothing to separate how they act when compared to something more ghostly. The aliens telepathic control of Spalko is none too different from the ghosts assault on Toht and the Nazis.

I always believed that Kingdom was always comparable to the rest of the Indy movies, but the style is just outdated now. The action scenes are pretty similar in the sense that they're more madcap than you'd normally see in the movie today and the story is always pretty fucking weird in these Indiana Jones adventures.