Mad Men Forum

So far, season 4 of mad men has offered a weakened Don Draper flailing against the winds of change, beaten and apathetic. It has brought hilarity in the form of Mrs Blankenship the incompetent secretary, and various other moments of comic relief. We have seen a once insurmountable advertising god falter and spiral into a drunken stupor, and a once unlikable weasel of a human being become more and more human. 
 
This is just a fraction of a microcosm of my personal take on the season so far. From this point on, this thread will provide an open forum for all of the various opinions of screened.com's mad menophiles, and I look forward to discussing every plot point and nuance with you.

I find myself thinking of the counterculture more and more with every episode. It's blatantly obvious that the older and younger generations will clash and the question, really, is on which side Don will be on. Some have complained about the beginning of the fourth season but I find it a good ramp to elevate the problems to solutions. I think Don will take care of his shit.

Yesterday's episode surely has to be the Don Draper rock bottom we've been expecting. Rather than keeping on with the sad sack routine, the last episode seemed like a set up for this episode's monumental downfall. Not only was it depressing that he was such an embarrassment in the meeting but him trying to pull out the nostalgia speech and failing has kind of shattered everything I thought I knew about Don Draper. That speech in season one felt both inspired and emotional but now it just seems like it's just another one of his lines. Similarly, him missing the weekend and missing the kids completely fucked my 'But he's always been a good father' theory that I mentioned last week. Surely, that has to be the thing that kickstarts his life again, if nothing else.

@HandsomeDead said:

" ...  if nothing else. "

America changes in the 60's. And not because the America that once was, was really so great. The theme of this season was stated clearly and singularly by Allison in episode 4 to Don: "You are not a good person." 
 
The thing that's always been true about Mad Men is that you look back at the era of the early 1960's with such nostalgic glee but there's always been the ugly truth lying just beneath. The racism, the sexism, the alcohol, the smoking, the womanizing. The entire series of Mad Men is liking living through that pivotal decade. At first you idolize the "hero" of the era for his charm, his wit, his success. But as the decade wears on you begin to feel embarrassed for him at his arrogance, his vices, his flaws. 
 
I don't know if Don is really going to "rise again". I kind of doubt it. Or if he does, it won't be this season and it won't be the Don from season 1. 
 
EDIT: Also, I'm loving the reviews of each episode over at the AV Club. I just finished reading this week's and there was an interesting point: 
"The handholding: what's your read on that moment?" 
 
Here's mine. Roger passing his essence - a aging boozer, coasting on the success of years gone by - to Don, made complete when Don kisses Joan on the mouth. It's not coincidence that they show Roger kissing Joan earlier in the episode. 
 
It's also no coincidence that this episode, about the pros and cons of winning awards, aired on the same day as the Emmys, where Mad Men won a third straight... 
 
My final note: John Hamm plays a miraculous drunk.

Great episode, but I ended up slightly depressed and now I'm not certain that Don Draper will ever get his groove back. Is it just me or is that psychiatrist sending out exactly the signals Don thinks she is?
 
I loved seeing the origins of Don and Roger, its something that hasn't really been touched on so far and it was pretty interesting to see how Don got started. Pete Campbell also got his weasel on something fierce tonight, but I don't care for the new art director, he's just too much of a dick. Also, Duck Phillips seems to have really went off the rails after whenever Peggy dropped him, turtlenecks haven't saved him from latent alcoholism.
 

@JokerSmilez:

  I saw the Joan handholding scene as representing her as a maternal figure for Don, as she's something of a matriarch for the rest of SCDP (with the exception of Roger). Then again, she's been doing a lot of mothering for Roger as well since he started heading down the morose sadsack route.  
 
On a related note, Pete Campbell's bitchface is one of the funniest mad men blogs around -  http://petecampbellsbitchface.tumblr.com/

@WalkerTR77: I think it's interesting that as Duck Phillips goes off on a drunken rant, it keeps cutting to Don and Roger who seem to take sips from their glasses every time they're on camera. 
 
As for the psychiatrist, I think she represents the kind of woman Don was a master of winning over in season one. Now, he couldn't get an interesting woman if his life depended on it and instead is going home with whoever throws themselves at him, including ditching a woman at lunch for the waitress. Reminds me of a story from the book "Dirt" about Motley Crue, where they told stories of sleeping with a woman and then telling her to leave through the bedroom window because another woman was coming in the door. 
 
I think she respects his talent and his (sober) intelligence, and like many of the women in the show, will withstand a certain amount of put-ons, but I don't think she's sending out any signals besides professional respect and maybe a little bit of sympathy. At this point, Don is trying to sleep with any woman who talks to him. Next, he'll be coming on to Joan. 
 
Interesting parallel with Roger "accidentally" hiring Don when he was drunk and Don "accidentally" being forced to hire that idiot because he was drunk.

There's a lot of talk about Don and Joan possibly getting it on after the handholding and the kiss, I personally don't see the show going any further with it though. As much as I would like to see them together, it doesn't really fit the show and the idea of two of the most powerful sexual forces in the universe colliding is terrifying.

@JokerSmilez: When I say about him rising again, I definitely don't mean him going back to his ways in the previous seasons. He's always seemed more progressive than the others in his ideas, even if he isn't exactly a renaissance man and, even from the point of view of it being a TV show, I don't think there can really be a downward spiral of this magnitude carrying on for two and a half more seasons and remain compelling. I think I've mentioned it before but Rescue Me became unwatchable for me some time in the third series when it went from gritty drama to just crushing at every available opportunity. Even if the Pete Campbell renaissance continues, I can't see it counter balancing Draper continuing to be shown as the bad person he is, or has been for a long time. 
 
With Joan, it did seem very much like a torch passing moment. I don't think the kiss was much other than Don not really knowing his limits in victory but the handholding definitely showed that, for that moment at least, Joan represented the same thing to both Don and Roger. As far as I remember, Don has never had a thing for Joan but considering the state he's in, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried it on. Also, even if it was entertaining, I think the Duck Phillips ranting was a bit on the nose. 
 
On a unrelated note, in the flashback, on one of the things he came up with, Don is credited as Donald F. Draper, has the F. been mentioned before? 

@HandsomeDead: I agree that we definitely won't just bounce back to his old self. But I also have a hard imagining how they are going to dig Draper out of the mess he's in without seeming contrived. They definitely seem committed to the idea of his decline but to what end, should be interesting to watch. 
 
I think the kiss with Joan was definitely deliberate. It kind of surprised me as Don has never shown any affection towards Joan in the past, so I think it was there if for nothing other than to be symbolic.  
 
Also, I don't think I mentioned it earlier, but that episode was by far the funniest episode of the entire series. And kudos to Don for the best damn drink order I've ever heard: "Something simple, but significant."

@HandsomeDead: @JokerSmilez: I would like to think that he will "rise again" by becoming a better man than he has been, and sorting himself out. I remember Don and Joan having a pretty tender conversation in season 3 in a hospital, right after that guy got decimated by the lawnmower. I might be wrong about the conversation itself, it's been a while since I've seen the episode.

"The suitcase"

 This episode is in my view, the best since the season three finale. It deals with the spiraling decline of Don Draper in excruciating detail, as he attempts to overcome the death of the most important person in his life while entirely isolated by his faux persona. It also deals with the most interesting relationship on the show, that of Don and Peggy. This relationship has become so complex that almost an entire episode needs to be dedicated to it just to properly address all of the various issues plaguing both of them. 
 
 It was an unblinking insight into the despair that Don has been facing down for the past season, but the episode also explored all of the hardships Peggy has been facing which haven't really been brought up in any greater detail recently than her listlessly complaining about Don picking up the glory for the glow coat campaign and neglecting to give her any credit. The time they spend together, bashing their heads trying desperately to produce a usable campaign (to sell suitcases of all things) is a testament to the fact that, while they share a great talent. it is also a tremendous burden which decimates their personal lives. The end of the episode for me signals the long awaited return to form for Don Draper that many of us have been clamoring for, although I'm not entirely certain that will be what we get I'm hopeful that things will start looking up.
 
 Like any truly great episode of mad men however, this episode brought the funny and delivered it in spades. I was incapacitated with laughter while Don listened to Roger's tell all tape, as we heard about Bert Coopers less than ample equipment and Rogers own past tryst with once "hellcat" now mummified specter (and unapologetic racist) Ira Blankenship. Roger also got some intentional Sterling silver quality one liners in while pleading with Don to come down to the bar and save him from the teetotalers. And I'm not sure about everyone else but I thought that Don's fumbling attempt at sentiment with "I'M SORRY ABOUT YOUR BOYFRIEND!?" was pretty damn funny.
 
 This was also one of those episodes of mad men that almost convinced me that leaving behind the trappings of 2010, with all the Ipods and high definition garnish for the 60's would be worthwhile just to see some of those titanic events like the Sonny Liston/Cassius Clay matchup. However, arguably the most anticipated fight of the era took place not in Madison Square Garden but in the dimly lit offices of SCDP as two soused, suited, formerly great titans of the ad world went toe to toe for supremacy. The battle in the breakroom! The altercation in the... agency. The long awaited bout essentially came down to two sweaty, inebriated bile stained men awkwardly scrapping with one another while a mildly concerned and certainly embarrassed Peggy watched. After an acute leg sweep, Duck fells then mounts the drunken Draper, and clenching his fist into a strange shape (which he possibly picked up while killing 17 men in Okinawa) intimidates him into conceding "uncle".
 
 A slightly underwhelming bout, but who is your pick for a sober rematch? While the duck beak strike that was so effective in Okinawa gives Philiips an edge, I put my money on the Archibald Whitman maneuver closing down Duck Phillips permanently.
 

@WalkerTR77: It was definiately a great episode

@popo: I ended up writing a longer post, I had to drop out and edit in everything after paragraph one... not sure if you saw that or when the rest appeared?

@WalkerTR77: No, I didn't see the longer post until now.
 
Interesting read. But a sober rematch? Will Don ever be sober again?

@popo:  I would hope so, the end of the episode seemed pretty upbeat. Then again, I thought Don was back on form at the end of the season 4 premiere so bollocks to my predictions.

I thought this week's episode was one of the best ever. Summed everything great about the show. It had a similar feel to a stage play, which is unique element to Mad Men. 
 
I don't think before this season we've seen Don Draper really drunk. In this season, we've seen him embarrassingly drunk, throwing up, and being helped to a bed or couch almost every episode. 
 
I don't think we've seen the end of Don's issues with alcohol, especially when every episode seems to be dripping with warnings like Duck and Roger. 
 
I think season 4 could be the year for John Hamm to finally get his Emmy. He's killing it this season.

@JokerSmilez:  But who's your pick for a Duck/Don rematch!? And yea Hamm should get an emmy, but he should have had at least one already. Ideally him and Cranston would get one on alternate years.

Draper for sure. When sober, we know the man can throw a solid punch (see Jimmy Barrett from season 2).
 
I think the main reason Hamm hasn't won yet is because he's been too understated in the past. This season, he's showing much more of his range and I hope he gets rewarded for it.

As far as I can tell, this is me out of any Mad Men or Rubicon discussion for the forseeable future. The University network I'm now on has a real block against file sharing and so unless there's some way I can get around it, I have no access to either of those shows anymore. I suppose it's bad enough me pirating them in the first place but considering how the BBC schedulers are, Mad Men started late and got fucked in the schedules and I have no idea if Rubicon will get picked up by anyone.

@HandsomeDead: That's horrendous news, hope you find a way around it. I also need to download both of those shows, the BBC airs mad men about a year after the US, and usually at about 2am Sunday morning. So yea, bollocks to waiting for it, I buy the dvd's anyway.