The Dark Knight Rises Forum

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I saw this movie at midnight premiere and absolutely loved it the anticipation in the theater was incredible especially when you realized that this movie was going to meet all of my expectations and be an amazing movie; that is until the ending....

It was very powerful seeing Alfred cry during Bruce's "funeral" and I think it would have been the perfect bittersweet ending seeing him go to that restaurant at the end looking for Bruce but not finding him. Having Batman put in the autopilot was very stupid because right before he takes off in the "Bat" he tells Catwoman (my favorite character in the movie) that there wasn't an autopilot in his plane. Why would he say that if he ends up telling all of those people that he is still alive after the fact? Only good to come out of the this was that Bruce gets together with Catwoman Doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not even joking when I say that everyone in the theater groaned when it was revealed that the ex-policemans name was Robin. What was the point of that since its been established that this was going to be the last Batman movie by this group.

It was very odd for me to see Nolan pulling some punches and taking away what could have been a great finish to a great series instead we get a Hollywood ending to an otherwise great movie. So what are you're thoughts Screened pups?

@TheFaithfullyDeparted: Alfred's plotline was one of the most beautifully done, ballsiest, unresolved, human stories and such a tragic note to end on that made me applaud Nolan. Then they said Auto-Pilot was fixed, which made me think that Bruce *chose* to die, which again, fits with the character, and works.

And then that scene at the restaurant happend and it was fucking terrible and I was like COME ON SERIOUSLY MAN FUCK YOU.

I'm sorry to say that you missed the point of those last few moments then. The entire idea behind Nolan's Batman is that it isn't just about Bruce wearing a mask (which for the comic books seems to be the point as they've "killed" off or removed Bruce as Batman a number of times and handed it to Dick Grayson or someone else and yet inevitably they keep bringing Bruce back because nobody thinks anyone but him could be Batman) but about the mask standing for something greater than a single individual. Plus, Nolan's universe established that a normal man could not do what we expect of Batman and not be consequences, as the scene as the hospital shows (though I thought this was one of the weaker points of the film as Nolan did a good job establishing just how much Bruce's body had endured and yet through the film he seems to completely ignore that fact). So the only way for Batman to endure is to pass the legacy on to someone else (or at least the idea of Batman as one could argue Blake will not become Batman but may take up something more in-line with the Nightwing or Red Robin identities).

As for the autopilot "loophole", don't really see one. It makes sense that Bruce would say there isn't one so that people could believe he had died and therefore go from Batman being a person (who was hunted by the city at the start) to a legend (just as Ra's Al Ghul had spoken about in Batman Begins). This would also allow him to liquidate his assets from Wayne Enterprises in order to live a life away from the cowl (and remember how Selina made the comment that he could have gone anywhere and he responded she could have as well). The death also echoes Harvey's in a way, still not quite truthful, but one based on a good man vice one turned to evil. So in a way, he (Bruce) got it right this time in providing Gotham with a hero by faking his death and making Jim Gorden believe he was dead (thus closing the loop on Gorden's hand in creating Batman and Bruce once again making a sacrifice for him so Jim can continue his own role in preserving justice).

Now as for the Robin first name.....I have to agree with you on that one. It wasn't necessary, but I can see why Nolan did it. The entire film Bruce acts as a slight mentor to Blake while at the same time Blake helps re-ignite Bruce's passion for justice (just like in the comics how both Dick and Tim help balance Bruce's anger and obsession and at times have pulled him back from the brink) so it was a good nod to the relationship of Batman and Robin even if it wasn't absolutely necessary. I think people should let that one slide because it was never focused on and was more a footnote than a defining aspect of Blake's character (sort of a "ah, it makes sense because his name is Robin" then actually needing to have his character be Robin and in a suit).

As for what was the point of establishing Blake as the heir to the Batman legacy.....because this entire trilogy was Bruce Wayne's story. It doesn't matter that their won't be anymore Batman films by Nolan (and most likely neither DC nor Warner Brothers will want to make a follow-on series with Blake's character behind the mask and so the next Batman film will be more along the lines of a reboot or revamp) because in a sense Batman is over. Again, we don't know that Blake will become Batman. He could just as easily take another name but still have access to all the equipment and the cave. The fact that the cave is now under an orphanage means he has the potential of a greater supporting staff than Bruce did (and actually reminds me a lot more of Zorro, who always had the support of the church and the people, which makes sense as part of the inspiration for Batman was Zorro) and a greater connection to the people he's trying to protect.

Had they killed off Bruce not much would have been really different in the ending....the natural progression of the trilogy is that Blake would take over the mantle of Gotham's protector. So why did Nolan do it? Well, for one this is a superhero movie and so we expect the hero to come out in the end. That's just part of the culture of superhero comics. The villain is defeated and the villain triumphs. The second reason the ending works is that part of the lore of Batman is that he always has a plan, he's always thinking of the next step. That's why we are told that he fixed the autopilot 6 months ago (even before he was beaten by Bane). Did he want everyone to know there was an autopilot? No. Its something he kept secret in the event he needed to use it. The opportunity presented itself and he did. Is it a bit of a stretch, yes. But then again so it assuming he could turn everyone's cellphone in the city into a sonar device and yet nobody notices that their phone is acting weird (or the fact that such a signal would interfere with other electronic transmissions). Its the part of the film that's still makes it a comic book movie and allows the audience to get the hero truimphs ending they are expecting.

@ltbrd: What did you think of the batcave?

@Tylea002: I wouldn't have had a problem with Batman living but the second Alfred talked at Bruces funeral I got choked up and was thinking this was the best way to end his story.

@ltbrd: But all the people that are there when he says there isn't any autopilot (Gordon and Selena "Catwoman") he ends up telling later on that he is still alive after the fact thats why I didn't like it he could have just as easily slinked off into the night and just said Bruce died during the time that Bane was in charge but they had to throw a curveball by making it look like he died to then wimp out on that ending. Thats what would have been different he made it seem like he was gonna go for something risky and kill off Batman and Alfred confessing his failures to Bruces parents.

I also liked the idea of Blake becoming the new protector of the city though some of the stuff he does in the film were questionable; he quits being a police because the soldiers were just doing their job and the fight with the Boys in Need director outside the bus right after that was unnecessary, odd, and didn't fit well with what else was happening at the time. The thing I'm saying with the Robin is that it was already established that he was going to take over they didn't need to call him Robin because nobody in my audience wanted that, and a lot other people apparently.

@TheFaithfullyDeparted: I think you''re reading too much into the Robin thing. I didn't think it was any more than a wink and nod towards fans of the franchise. Also only three people knew Bruce was still alive: Alfred, Selina Kyle, and Lucius. To the rest of Gotham, Batman IS dead.

I think they left it open for more movies. Maybe Robin will be the next Batman or maybe they will just keep going with new actors and director.

Most of it felt earned anyways. Cheesy? Perhaps a bit. But for the most part it fit into what was set up. I like that everything didn't just end and Batman was only around for a little bit in Gotham. This leaves it open for more stories whether they make it to film or not.

@ichthy: From my understanding Gordon knows he is alive as well, remember when he sees the repaired Bat signal and smiles.

My dislike for that scene is he tells Catwoman that there isn't autopilot and then they kiss as there last goodbye, it was weird for him to say that when it shows after the fact that they're together. If Batman had just stayed there and let the Bat fly off with its autopilot nothing would have changed the same people would have known he was alive while everyone else would have thought he was dead. It was an unnecessary comment for him to make about there being no autopilot and its only purpose was to make the audience believe he was dead but Nolan didn't even follow through on that

I felt the Robin name bit was a little cheesy, but kinda necessary for anyone who didn't realize where that was going.. Just a small quip at the idea, even though he would probably take on the mantle of batman, echoing the words of Bruce Wayne telling him that Batman is a symbol, its more than a man, its unkillable essentially..

Another question is what did everyone think of the final scene with Bane.. I loves every second Tom Hardy tore up as Bane, he created a monster with very little rhyme or reason who followed Joker's chaos for the sake of chaos routine.. But in the last scene of his, Batman beats him, and Talia al Ghul reveals his true beginnings and nature, both things essentially emasculating (probably not the right word) him and tearing down everything he was and then the Catwoman bit.. I just felt like they were done with Bane at that point and didn't bother giving him a fitting end..

I thought that scene could also be interpreted as non-reality; that Bruce/Batman did die, and Alfred's vision of him was his imagining that Bruce was finally at peace.

@ashogo: me and my friends were discussing that to but the things holding that back are 1 the autopilot was fixed and 2 Alfred never saw catwoman i believe

@Genkkaku: Well maybe Bane didn't really die. I think, like the ending of that film, they intended to leave it open to possibly another director to take the helm and then make up some bullshit that Bane somehow survived. I don't know if that's really a good or a bad thing, but I'd like to think that that's what they wanted to do all along. But yes, I agree with you regarding his end. IF they were going to kill him off outright, his end should've been more, I don't know...dramatic? Or something along those lines.

The Robin thing was a bit cheesy yes, but I don't think he's necessarily going to become Robin or Nightwing. The film didn't really say that would be the case. It's possible Blake would take up that mantle, or he could just be the new Batman, and Bruce would be off somewhere living life like Alfred wanted him to.

I've said this before already, but I can just imagine Nolan and Bale on set talking about it, saying, "Screw it. Let's just include Robin and be done with it. It's not like we're going to be around this project much longer, right?"

@Genkkaku: it was late when i watched the movie, but I don't think Bane was in charge, with the ending, I don't think bane planned for everything, I don't think he was planning a second fight, or was even ready for one. don't get me wrong there was a plan, and bane was fallowing it. he fought batman on his terms, and i bet he would have fought batman right away if he could have, but he was under orders. I think there were 2 times he could have fought him, but didn't.

@asian_pride: He did deserve a more fitting end after not only besting Batman but physically destroying him.. I like the idea of Joseph Gordon Levitt finding the Batcave, re-enforcing the idea that Batman lives on regardless of the man under the hood.. I really hope it doesn't lead to a sequel, This movie closes it out pretty good..

@Watcherg44: Yeah but with the first fight , no matter what Batman did he just could not overcome Bane's raw power and speed.. which was foreshadowed by Alfred mentioning it and how he hasn't been Batman for a long time, that his body is frail and broken from the experience.. So the fact that he came back and overcame Bane with relative ease is a bit far removed from the monster they have created Bane to be

I think my main problem with the Bane end is that I felt that his mask is analogous to the Joker's Scar its a feature that serves a purpose and a meaning but the origin is never conveyed to the viewer.. When the Joker asks "Wanna know how I got these scars?" and precedes to recount false stories about it create his identity, He is the man with the scars but why and how, but you never need to know to enjoy that character.. and I felt the same with Bane's mask, but that moment they tell his back story and show him unmasked, humanises a character that was a monster, and takes that meaning away from him..

@Genkkaku: so is that your only problem with bane?

@Watcherg44: Yes, I loved everything else about him and the way Tom Hardy played him, I think thats why I really disliked that bit

@Genkkaku: ok Next question, Bane's Voice what did you think???

@Watcherg44: Personally I thought it was amazing.. I think from the opening scene the first moment he talks he comes off as imposing and a madman by just opening his mouth, justifying the voice.. I really liked it, you can hear Tom Hardy's english accent bleed through so you have this sophistication and brutality all rolled into one.. And it helps when he is trying to be imposing and then being "sympathetic" to gotham, I can also see why people would think the opposite..

That said I did have some trouble hearing him throughout including his last line, but I think we had a bad sound mix or the Projectionist set it up wrong, because I had issues with sound throughout the film (to loud then dialogue being to quiet)

They should have just cut at Caines nodding face an inception style end, instead we got dorky Bale nodding and winking at the camera. Overall good film though. Works better as a sequel to Begins than it does to TDK.

@Watcherg44: I didn't have a problem with understanding Bane but his voice did not match the person he looked like, at least to me, and I always got the impression that the voice wasn't coming from him like it was coming from off camera