The Dark Knight Rises Forum

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@nicorcano: I agree

I read into "extreme visceral reaction" as "erection" or something, I guess I was seeing what I wanted to see.

@rem25 said:

@VioletEyedDragon said:

The first part of the trailer where Bane talks you can't hear anything; the second time it is obviously dubbed over after the other sound effects were added.

This is gonna be awful. BATMAN BEGINS was stupid and TDK was morally despicable. Also, how did a "high-concept" movie like that get away with Joker's idiotic master plan. It makes no sense!

Yeah, the dubbed over voice bothers me a bit but I'll wait to see the final product and judge for myself. Also, while this trailer doesn't sell me on the film though I will see it, what's with the hate? How was TDK morally despicable? After hearing the rants on the Cabin in the Woods ending thread, I'm interested. As far as the Joker's plan at the end of TDK goes, I don't think it was inconceivable he thought one boat would try to blow up the other. He assumed humanity was doomed and that Gotham could never pull itself up to some higher moral ground.

The boat plan wasn't the part I thought was idiotic. I thought the biggest problem was where Joker gets arrested and then triggers a bomb he sewed in his henchman's stomach, somehow managing to blast the wall of the room he was in and disarm his guards but not injure him in any way. If that was a Transformers movie it would be okay, but Nolan obviously wants us to take TDK seriously.

My problem with the moral is that Batman assumes that (1) the people can't handle the truth and (2) he has the right to hide it from them. What gives him the right to hide the fact that Harvey Dent went insane? He refuses to let anyone else fight crime and he doesn't care about any laws that govern the rest of us. What entitles him to be Gotham's dictator? His huge fortune that funds his high-tech weapons, all of which was inherited? His years of training with a known terrorist because he knew he would have his perfect life waiting when he came back? His intellect and good health, which he was born with? What gives him the right to hide the truth from Gotham? And if the truth is ever discovered, wouldn't the knowledge that the city's wealthiest and most powerful are hiding major facts cause the instant destruction of the city? It seems very fascist to me.

I am glad you agree about the dubbed voice. I too will wait for the movie to make my final verdict. Now, though, the negative response and the poor quality of Bane's voice in the trailers make me assume that it will not be very good. Also the fact that word is Tom Hardy is trying to hide his accent, which is a near-impossible thing to do. (Also, why is a British guy playing a character who in the comics is very clearly described as Latino?)

@VioletEyedDragon: You bring up some interesting points. With regards to Harvey Dent, Batman realizes that he is the best thing to have come out of Gotham in years. Dent wasn't going to be bought out, intimidated or back down from the mob or anybody who got in his way. Like he said (or maybe it was Gordon) at the end of TDK about how Dent was the white knight Gotham needs. Harvey was the true beacon of hope Gotham had, not Batman. That's why Bruce Wayne was going to give up being Batman because he realized all the good Dent was doing. Bruce was going to let Harvey fight for Gotham and he knew Harvey could make a difference given enough time. It's the reason Batman saved Dent instead of Rachel Dawes. It's not that Bruce didn't love Rachel or that her death was an acceptable sacrifice, it was that Dent was what Gotham needed. If the people of Gotham knew that Dent became insane partly because of Joker's manipulations, they would have lost what little hope they were getting back. Batman had to become the villain because many people already were against him as was the police force and mayor. He didn't care if people hated him as long as they had someone to look up to.

Yes, part of what enables Bruce to be Batman is his wealth. He fully recognizes this but he still wants to make a difference in the city. He knows that the police won't do their jobs because too many are in the mob's pockets. Civilians who try to stand up for themselves usually end up dead (see the Batman impersonators in TDK). Because of what happened to his parents and because he truly loves the city, he dedicated himself physically and mentally to protect Gotham. I think Bruce's real role is playing the playboy billionaire with a different girl on his arm at every public function. His real passion is being Batman. Even if he went bankrupt, he would continue to be Batman because that's who Bruce truly is.

The one morally despicable thing that was covered in the movie was Bruce's complete intrusion into everyone's lives in Gotham via the cell phones, radios, etc. Bruce knew this was a terrible thing to do but he knew it was also necessary in order to find and stop the Joker. He knew once Lucius Fox found out there would be dire consequences. That's why Lucius was the only one to know the code to destroy the network Batman built to spy on everyone. He knew Lucius would be the moral compass Bruce could count on to do the right thing was he was discovered. The same goes for Alfred and Gordon. They both question Bruce/Batman with his decisions though Alfred loves him like a son. There's a reason Bruce surrounds himself with people whose morals are more on the straight arrow than his are.

As far as Bane being portrayed by a British man instead of a Latino, I don't have an answer. Honestly, this isn't the first or last time roles have been changed around. Why is Nick Fury black instead of white? Yes, the Ultimate universe, etc. but sometimes I think people make a bigger deal about these types of things. Of course, I will keep an open mind until I see TDKR and then judge Nolan and company.

@rem25: yeah, the race of a character isn't hugely important. it is just if they are going to change it, the new actor must be awfully good. (which Samuel L. Jackson most certainly is).

I see your points and they are good. I just don't think Batman has the right to hide the truth, even if it would cause the city to descend into chaos.

@rem25: You made alot of good Points! on the Dark knight!

The Joker was about Anarchy, and i'm not sure he was the main point of the movie. I mean they were taken down the mob, and worried about keeping them locked out. it was kind of a Rise of the Joker movie!

but the nick Fury thing, who would you pick? David Hasselhoff Thomas William "Tom" Selleck i mean really? who really Stands out. Why does nick fury have to be white?

@Watcherg44 said:

@rem25: You made alot of good Points! on the Dark knight!

The Joker was about Anarchy, and i'm not sure he was the main point of the movie. I mean they were taken down the mob, and worried about keeping them locked out. it was kind of a Rise of the Joker movie!

but the nick Fury thing, who would you pick? David Hasselhoff Thomas William "Tom" Selleck i mean really? who really Stands out. Why does nick fury have to be white?

Thanks for that! As far as Nick Fury goes, I think Samuel L. Jackson was a fine choice to make. David Hasselhoff already played Fury and well, that was pretty bad. My point about whether Fury wasn't that he should be white but that people get wrapped up in whether a character being portrayed one way originally but now is portrayed another way. Nick Fury is white in the Marvel 616 Universe but in the Ultimate Universe he's black. Fury could've been portrayed as a white man and it probably would be fine but it doesn't change his character.

@rem25: I'm not going to lie I think David Hasselhoff Did a Great job, it was the made for TV feel, and the bad script, but not the Hasselhoff's fault.

I'm even going to say he was a bit Meaner than Jackson's Fury. but that is only my view.

I didn't want to get off point, but i don't get to defend David Hasselhoff every day, and i have to take my shot when I can

So I saw this trailer before The Avengers and Bane's voice didn't seem to have the awful overdubbing that's present here in this trailer. Did anyone else notice this? I wonder if something was done to the trailer released online versus the one in theaters.